Crashed again - Crestmead criterium 26 Feb 2012
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Crashed again - Crestmead criterium 26 Feb 2012
i rode in the masters B race of the Champion System Summer Series on Sunday and was one of about 6 or seven riders that came down on the second last corner of the last lap. Some of you may know that this was my second crash in one week, the first one being the previous sunday on Zupps at Scarborough.
As far as i could see, the crash happened in two stages:
1. I was in the top 1/3 of riders going into the second last corner. Guy behind me and to my left decided he wanted to improve his position, took too much speed going into the corner, couldn't make it and hit the gutter, taking another 2 (i think) riders on the outside with him. Didn't see the impact but they make an aweful noise as they hit the deck/gutter. These guys were the worst injured i think.
2. I thought i was safe (big mistake!). A guy in front of me decides to turn around and look at the crash in the middle of the sprint, tangles handlebars and goes down with two other guys. I see them fall, have nowhere to go and plough into a HPRW rider. Go over handlebar after skewing sideways. End result - 10 stiches in the chin and my back wheel is a pretzel.
Note that there were around 65 (!!) riders in the field. Problem is you don't have to be very fit to race masters B and so a lot of newbies end up in this category. The series runs for another 2 rounds and I highly doubt I will do these races.
As far as i could see, the crash happened in two stages:
1. I was in the top 1/3 of riders going into the second last corner. Guy behind me and to my left decided he wanted to improve his position, took too much speed going into the corner, couldn't make it and hit the gutter, taking another 2 (i think) riders on the outside with him. Didn't see the impact but they make an aweful noise as they hit the deck/gutter. These guys were the worst injured i think.
2. I thought i was safe (big mistake!). A guy in front of me decides to turn around and look at the crash in the middle of the sprint, tangles handlebars and goes down with two other guys. I see them fall, have nowhere to go and plough into a HPRW rider. Go over handlebar after skewing sideways. End result - 10 stiches in the chin and my back wheel is a pretzel.
Note that there were around 65 (!!) riders in the field. Problem is you don't have to be very fit to race masters B and so a lot of newbies end up in this category. The series runs for another 2 rounds and I highly doubt I will do these races.
PeterO- Posts : 115
Join date : 2012-02-20
Location : Clayfield
Re: Crashed again - Crestmead criterium 26 Feb 2012
Bloody hell Peter. Sorry to hear it.
If the chin gash is the only injury, and considering you just lost a bit of bark on Zupps, I have to say you have got off lightly.
Seems like there's a good case to wear BMX protective gear in Masters racing.
Two crashes that close together must be a statistical outlier, or indicative of the high influx of riders with underdeveloped skills in recent years.
The % of race crashes occurring in the last lap really needs to be addressed. Last year, one of the reasons I considered doing the commissaire's course was to build a database of reports and stats on crashes, and use that to guide crash minimization interventions, such as
- skills and knowledge test for granting of race licenses. skills could be validated by three experienced racers by simply showing up to Nundah or Murrarie training half a dozen times and doing high intensity paceline training safely.
- a knowledge test could be performed via an online web facility run by CA.
- commissaires mounting front/rear video cameras on 3-4 bicycles within the race as extra incentive for everyone not to ride dangerously, and evidence of carelessness.
- those who have been shown to cause crashes to be suspended from x races, fined $y, and made to attend z training sessions before being allowed to resume. the thing is, races are not where riders should be developing base pack riding skills.
- more lower grade races could be points races that heavily reduce the motivation for tight bunch sprints in the last lap. however this would require electronic timing as it is too much a burden on the finish line officials. Most clubs in Sydney and Melbourne with as many members as HPRW have electronic timing.
- limit the size of race fields.
- have more teams racing, as greater motivation for strategy involving breaks and attacks, so that the bunch is more spread by the last lap. Having new or solo riders randomly allocated to teams each week would make racing a more social event where consideration was developed for fellow riders, and arguably discourage reckless racing.
I think it would shock a lot of race officials to see the annual economic loss due to man hours of work lost or compromised due to race crashes.
If the chin gash is the only injury, and considering you just lost a bit of bark on Zupps, I have to say you have got off lightly.
Seems like there's a good case to wear BMX protective gear in Masters racing.
Two crashes that close together must be a statistical outlier, or indicative of the high influx of riders with underdeveloped skills in recent years.
The % of race crashes occurring in the last lap really needs to be addressed. Last year, one of the reasons I considered doing the commissaire's course was to build a database of reports and stats on crashes, and use that to guide crash minimization interventions, such as
- skills and knowledge test for granting of race licenses. skills could be validated by three experienced racers by simply showing up to Nundah or Murrarie training half a dozen times and doing high intensity paceline training safely.
- a knowledge test could be performed via an online web facility run by CA.
- commissaires mounting front/rear video cameras on 3-4 bicycles within the race as extra incentive for everyone not to ride dangerously, and evidence of carelessness.
- those who have been shown to cause crashes to be suspended from x races, fined $y, and made to attend z training sessions before being allowed to resume. the thing is, races are not where riders should be developing base pack riding skills.
- more lower grade races could be points races that heavily reduce the motivation for tight bunch sprints in the last lap. however this would require electronic timing as it is too much a burden on the finish line officials. Most clubs in Sydney and Melbourne with as many members as HPRW have electronic timing.
- limit the size of race fields.
- have more teams racing, as greater motivation for strategy involving breaks and attacks, so that the bunch is more spread by the last lap. Having new or solo riders randomly allocated to teams each week would make racing a more social event where consideration was developed for fellow riders, and arguably discourage reckless racing.
I think it would shock a lot of race officials to see the annual economic loss due to man hours of work lost or compromised due to race crashes.
ven2- Admin
- Posts : 587
Join date : 2012-02-20
Location : Brisbane, Australia
Re: Crashed again - Crestmead criterium 26 Feb 2012
Peter,
What bad luck! Looking back in a bunch sprint? That is incredible. I think Bruce is right. New riders should not have a right to just rock up and race. There should be standards, there should be cameras and individuals identified as being dangerous riders should be suspended and required to complete a re-training course. Also I agree with Bruce that there should be more teams races in an effort to reduce the numbers in bunch sprints. Another good idea is to limit the number of riders in a race. 65 is ridiculous and smacks of money making with scant regard for rider safety.
Paul
What bad luck! Looking back in a bunch sprint? That is incredible. I think Bruce is right. New riders should not have a right to just rock up and race. There should be standards, there should be cameras and individuals identified as being dangerous riders should be suspended and required to complete a re-training course. Also I agree with Bruce that there should be more teams races in an effort to reduce the numbers in bunch sprints. Another good idea is to limit the number of riders in a race. 65 is ridiculous and smacks of money making with scant regard for rider safety.
Paul
Dahlpad- Admin
- Posts : 211
Join date : 2012-02-22
Age : 80
Location : Brisbane
Re: Crashed again - Crestmead criterium 26 Feb 2012
Peter, this is the forearm of John Duel, one of the guys who went into the kerbing behind you.
As far as fractures go, they don't come much worse - compound and transverse...the slowest to heal, if they heal at all.
It is extremely nasty and will require surgery called ORIF (open reduction internal fixation), or external fixation.
The muscles and possibly the nerves to the fingers would be significantly damaged, and he may have lost sensation and some fine motor control.
Without doubt, he will never regain normal use or strength of his forearm and hand. Activities such as using a shovel, axe, saw, screwdriver, hammer, and crow bar will be either not possible or severely compromised.
He's paid a high price, and probably does not yet realize.
As far as fractures go, they don't come much worse - compound and transverse...the slowest to heal, if they heal at all.
It is extremely nasty and will require surgery called ORIF (open reduction internal fixation), or external fixation.
The muscles and possibly the nerves to the fingers would be significantly damaged, and he may have lost sensation and some fine motor control.
Without doubt, he will never regain normal use or strength of his forearm and hand. Activities such as using a shovel, axe, saw, screwdriver, hammer, and crow bar will be either not possible or severely compromised.
He's paid a high price, and probably does not yet realize.
ven2- Admin
- Posts : 587
Join date : 2012-02-20
Location : Brisbane, Australia
crash
Hi Peter, sorry to hear of your crash. Just trying the forum first time. So I am only now aware of your crash on the weekend. If there is anything you need ring me. All the best. And I will watch the forum now. Cheers Michael
Michael Frost- Admin
- Posts : 33
Join date : 2012-02-23
Crashing....
Hi everyone... here's my first ever post in here (great work Tom in setting this up BTW.!)
Very sorry to hear about your crash(es) Peter, glad you are mostly ok.
This racing thing is pretty dangerous business, and it's only with experience of a couple of pretty serious crashes (and one that resulted in 2 operations, loads of skin gone, a week in hospital and 3 weeks off work !), I feel compelled to put something on here.
The massive growth of our beloved sport is happening at such an incredible rate that we are bound to see huge variances in ability, skill, handling, experience etc, etc.... and herein lies the problem.
The points raised in this post are valid and something that I feel very strongly about. Aside from it being painful, mentally damaging and costly, the frustration for me is that it's something that could largely be minimised if there were some kind of 'control' over the grades in which people are able to race.
You may be interested to know that this is not an isolated problem and something that'd been discussed quite extensively Australia-wide. Check out the following:
h tt p: // w ww. cyclingtipsblog. com/2009/12/australia-cycling-needs-a-grading-system/
(interestingly, this post was created the very day after that crash i mentioned above)
h tt p: // w ww. cyclingtipsblog. com/2010/06/racing-from-the-front/
Some of the comments in these blogs are great and it seems that there's a huge interest in making what we do so much safer than it currently is.
Anyway, it is an inherently dangerous sport but perhaps CA or CQ need to be held accountable and take more of an interest.? Perhaps at a club level steps can be taken to instigate something re 'grading' for our own interests sake? All I know is that I don't want to end up on the operating table again due to someone's inexperience or incompetence, or end up like that poor bloke with the busted arm in this post.!
Man.... that makes my skin crawl.!!!
Very sorry to hear about your crash(es) Peter, glad you are mostly ok.
This racing thing is pretty dangerous business, and it's only with experience of a couple of pretty serious crashes (and one that resulted in 2 operations, loads of skin gone, a week in hospital and 3 weeks off work !), I feel compelled to put something on here.
The massive growth of our beloved sport is happening at such an incredible rate that we are bound to see huge variances in ability, skill, handling, experience etc, etc.... and herein lies the problem.
The points raised in this post are valid and something that I feel very strongly about. Aside from it being painful, mentally damaging and costly, the frustration for me is that it's something that could largely be minimised if there were some kind of 'control' over the grades in which people are able to race.
You may be interested to know that this is not an isolated problem and something that'd been discussed quite extensively Australia-wide. Check out the following:
h tt p: // w ww. cyclingtipsblog. com/2009/12/australia-cycling-needs-a-grading-system/
(interestingly, this post was created the very day after that crash i mentioned above)
h tt p: // w ww. cyclingtipsblog. com/2010/06/racing-from-the-front/
Some of the comments in these blogs are great and it seems that there's a huge interest in making what we do so much safer than it currently is.
Anyway, it is an inherently dangerous sport but perhaps CA or CQ need to be held accountable and take more of an interest.? Perhaps at a club level steps can be taken to instigate something re 'grading' for our own interests sake? All I know is that I don't want to end up on the operating table again due to someone's inexperience or incompetence, or end up like that poor bloke with the busted arm in this post.!
Man.... that makes my skin crawl.!!!
geemacd- Posts : 50
Join date : 2012-02-28
Re: Crashed again - Crestmead criterium 26 Feb 2012
thanks for all your comments guys. I think I came out of the crash least-worst off! That x-ray is certainly very scary. Hopefully my chin heals up allright, otherwise you will have to call me scarface.
PeterO- Posts : 115
Join date : 2012-02-20
Location : Clayfield
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